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tv   Headline News  RT  June 23, 2013 8:00pm-8:46pm EDT

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edward snowden is considering u.s. whistleblower with the u.s. is considering edward snowden's bid for asylum that's ecuador or rather he's currently in transit for a night at a moscow airport after fleeing hong kong. that's with washington in hot pursuit demanding his extradition and revoking his passport as some lawmakers demand the government hunt him to the ends of the earth. and as the hunt for snowden continues across continents a bush era whistleblower puts the spotlight on barack obama saying that the president was wiretapped when he ran for the u.s. senate.
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and here with r t i'm sean thomas let's get right to our top story one of america's most wanted men the n.s.a. whistleblower edward snowden is believed to be staying at a moscow airport tonight he is reportedly waiting to board a flight within the next twenty four hours after fleeing hong kong due to the looming threat of extradition to the u.s. here's our paul scott with the latest developments in washington's hunt for the man who leaked some of the country's most closely guarded secrets. one of america's most wanted men has kept the world's media guessing on a day of intrigue. the day began with reports that edward snowden had fled hong kong. to moscow has turned out to be true he landed hayward about five fifteen. five fifteen local time greeted by the ecuadorian. now we are hearing that he's having problems getting a russian visa and that he's stuck in transit in the airport terminal building
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behind me he was greeted by the ecuadorian ambassador and around three hours after he landed the confirmation came that was indeed the country that he was seeking asylum in the country's minister of foreign affairs tweeting that he had applied for political asylum with the country now the suggestion is he's going to fly on to cuba from the airports. on a monday afternoon that would also be a transit eventually and his journey his final destination his target destination of course. seeking political. belief he is not traveling alone there is a legal representative from wiki leaks to believe traveling with edward snowden on his journey wiki leaks say that they've helped edward snowden throughout the process they helped him have a safe. exit from hong kong. and they are indeed the ones who were negotiating the
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deal for political asylum in ecuador he's kept everyone guessing the world's press were here there were hundreds of photographers and cameramen and hoping to grab a glimpse of the world's most famous the miners but he hasn't been. in transit and also rather interesting the ecuadorian ambassador. we were expecting we were hoping that he would make some kind of official statement on this because the if only official confirmation that we do have. from the foreign minister but neither edward snowden nor the ecuadorian on. they certainly bugs one hey edward snowden legibly so i mean he's still here and he is set to spend the night i shot a man to the airport before i say really suggest he's involved he will not fly to cuba on the monday afternoon or two spalls khan keeping across situation there at sheremetyevo airport now edward snowden is exact whereabouts are currently unknown though he is thought to still be at the airport there is speculation he could be staying at a so-called capsule hotel inside share matzoh you're seeing footage of at the
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airport right now from marty's a news agency ruptly other reports however suggest he is in a zone inside one of the terminals he is believed to be waiting for a flight to cuba now the wiki leaks organization which is helping edward snowden seek refuge says he will leave for ecuador via what it calls a safe route artie's say has been following developments from ecuador's embassy in moscow throughout the day she brings us this report. there was a lot of speculation and a lot of speculation in the end and confirmed reports are running around to the minute that snowden actually left to hong kong on his way to moscow early on four o'clock runaround four o'clock in moscow time the ecuadorian ambassador and a motorcade left the embassy on route to the airport now of course we haven't heard anything as yet official from the ecuadorian embassy here in moscow as to where the ambassador is or how things are progressing with them but what we do know is that
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official statement from their durian embassy or from the uk during our foreign minister rather saying that it is indeed confirmed that snowden has launched that application or for asylum or with the government the reason why the media as well was crowding the embassy here earlier on today is because of the one particular case that we've all been following around of julian asuncion now of course we know that julian assange is been holed up at the ecuadorian embassy in london julian assange of course has been in the background of this extradition. appear pows are with us snowden right now you know it doesn't it doesn't surprise or many experts and many of the people who are out here that we spoke to saying that could be considering having snowden in the teacher we know that they've done that for julian assange so it was only i guess everybody thought the logical step would be for snowden himself to ask the adoring embassy to grant him asylum right now he's still
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at the airport we don't know how long his paperwork is going to go and if indeed he will be able to leave would only have to wait and see if they're going government themselves to give a formal statement saying that if indeed yes they have granted him that asylum so it's still a waiting game for all of us especially here at the boreen embassy in moscow and i'm sure for the rest of the world and everybody who's been following this story the whole day. washington has reportedly urged latin american countries not to offer edward snowden asylum gianni barreto from the free bradley manning support network is confident that ecuador among others would be willing to offer snowden refuge despite u.s. pressure to have very large. numbers of asylum like fifty some odd thousand not necessary political refugees but i think also that has also helped make a safe haven for those that are persecuted politically and i think it's
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a wonderful watershed moment were there was a big concert after it and beyond that these countries russia hong kong china venezuela and ecuador to protect edward snowden i think it's a very good initiative i think that all these countries know that the americans are not going to let up lightly and are going to exert a great amount of political pressure to have him extradited but i do hope in this new age of south american consciousness and new freedoms and so forth that they will step up to the plate and provide protection for edward snowden washington has revoked edward snowden's passport and said that he should be prevented from traveling any further that's as officials demanded that he be returned to the jurisdiction of the united states some lawmakers are urging washington to spare no effort to put him on trial in the u.s. even going so far as to threaten russia over its involvement or two he's going to judge karen is following the story for us. u.s.
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officials confirm that they have in fact revoked edward snowden's passport to stop him from traveling it didn't stop him from flying out of hong kong as we know not clear whether it was because hong kong officials did not receive the notification in time or because they made a decision to overlook it we know that the u. was has put a lot of pressure on hong kong to arrests and not to let him leave the country but in a statement the government of hong kong says u.s. documentation did not fully comply with the legal requirements on the hong kong law but also in the same statement the government of hong kong that they want more information about the hacking of computer systems in hong kong by u.s. government agencies something that was part of snowden's revelations so in this official statement we see how hong kong shifts the focus from the messenger edward snowden back to the message to the revelations that he has made demanding an explanation from the u. waves because these revelations show that the u.s. ally that it has been doing the same as what he to accuse is china of doing
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policymakers here in the u.s. are doing everything to shift the attention away from snowden's revelations by focusing on snowden himself or even by attacking other countries like russia senator chuck schumer was on one of the new shows this morning saying president putin. always seems almost eager to put a finger in the eye of the u.s. and i was listening to former director of the cia saying over russia and china are going to use this meeting snowden to embarrass the west and what would argue it's his revelations that embarrass. question the u.s. government is clearly afraid of more revelations from snowden the debate in the us media has shifted to this chase moche to this captain mouse game it's not all about how we're going to catch him so right now the media is unsympathetic to edward snowden although just a week ago some of the same journalists who are almost cheerleading for his capture
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now were grateful for snowden's revelations which were indeed eye opening for all of us as far as the prospect of being caught here's what edward snowden himself said i could be you know rendered by the cia i could have people come after me or any of their third party partners you know they would they work closely with a number of other nations and that's a fear i'll live under for the rest of my life however long that happens to be you can come forward against the world's most powerful intelligence agencies and be completely free from risk because they're such powerful adversaries the no one can meaningfully oppose them. if they want to get you they'll get you in time edward snowden also said it's not government persecution that he fears he said the greatest fear that i have about the outcome of these disclosures is that nothing will change more on that in my report america is split on the word snowden traitor or hero mixed in between but regardless of what anyone thinks about snowden his
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revelations have shed unprecedented light on the u.s. government's massive spying program even if you're not doing anything wrong you're being watched and recorded for me to say employ you william binney was prosecuted as a traitor when he blew the whistle on the government sweeping collection of data and communications it's setting up a tele terry in state. when the government has that much information they can do those things they can use the i.r.s. to intimidate people or anything else they can send the f.b.i. . what they did to me and some others bradley manning too is being prosecuted as a traitor although it's so here's your logs that the public learned about the. collateral murder was committed in iraq the obama administration has prosecuted more whistleblowers under the espionage act than all previous administrations combined but it was a lower say it's not government persecution that they fear the greatest fear that i have regarding the outcome. for america of these
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disclosures is that nothing will change the administration is not trying to convince the american people that government secrets programs are a trade off they have to make in the name of national security they always have the same stories about you know manning is known you know psychological stories what is wrong with these people cause them to do this i mean the real question is what is wrong with everyone else from who doesn't see what they can see but whistleblowers are not the only targets there is an obligation both moral but also legal i believe against a reporter that was the chairman of the house committee on cutting teligent and terrorism peter king calling to punish the journalist who exposed the government's surveillance programs in its hunt for meeks the obama administration has already targeted its it's trying to set the precedent communicating with the media is the same as communicating with the enemy and that's a death penalty offense the administration doesn't have to go after each other or
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he certainly it's enough to create an environment of fear but will that fear stop information from coming out here is that we're snowden's answer to that by. kone in response is simply build better whistleblower. in washington i'm going to take on. attorney and historian gerald horan says despite america frequently welcoming dissidents from other countries it adopts a harsh stance against those who highlight abuses of power at home. well if you listen to the congress persons appearing on sunday chat shows the united states they're breathing fire threatening measures just short of nuclear war if mr snowden is not speedily dispatched back to new york or washington united states for example routinely excepts on its territories citizens flaying cuba without passports i would also say the united states routinely receives on its soil those
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it deems to be political dissidents who do not have passports so i don't feel that musk else hands are tied with regard to mr snowden not having a passport we will have the latest developments on this story after a short break you're watching archly. download the official ati up location to yourself and choose your language stream quality and enjoy your favorites from alzheimer's if you're away from your
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television all it just doesn't matter now with your mobile device you can watch on t.v. anytime anywhere. well into the future this month high tech means could help whether it be the latest laser cutters or lifesaving heart valves crushing innovators are working hard to keep you healthy for some companies it's been a winding road from car simulators to cutting edge training systems for others it's been a lifetime of work along the mysteries of the self check it all out on technology update we've got the future covered.
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i would rather ask questions for people in positions of power instead of speaking on their behalf and that's why you can find my show larry king now right here on r.t. question more. live . live. live live. live
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. you're watching our team welcome back we're following of the unfolding story of whistleblower on the run edward snowden he is that now the seventh person the obama administration has sought to punish for leaking classified data let's get a recap of some of his major revelations that sparked washington's fury in the first place he disclosed documents showing it that the n.s.a. has access to huge streams of internet data including emails chat rooms and videos
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from large companies such as facebook and google and that the u.s. government used the secret of foreign intelligence surveillance court to gather an extensive why'd range of information from the phone service provider verizon he also revealed how both mainland china and hong kong have been the victim of hundreds of cyber attacks by u.s. hackers and according to his latest leak in the u.k. is collecting and storing huge amounts of sensitive personal data from online and telephone traffic and sharing it with america peter tatchell who is a u.k. human rights activist says u.s. surveillance tactics are outrageous and go beyond all legal boundaries. but she will deny the states will be doubling its efforts to try and intercept him and to get an extradition from whatever country they can i think the context of this is that the united states spies on its own citizens it also spies on the citizens of
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millions of other countries i mean millions of people in other countries and this is done without the permission of those countries it is technically illegal and what is extraordinary is that it would snowden was employed by the united states as a spy yet now they are seeking to arrest him for spying it seems complete enough pockets see when the united states is spying on its own citizens. on a massive scale without proper governmental interest oversight that within the united states or other countries around the world laws a leader of the u.k. pirate party believes that the u.s. will try to convince the public that edward snowden is a traitor to deflect attention away from what he revealed. what we can be sure of is that the united states will continue to tar him with the brush of being
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a traitor whatever his final destination is but we have to remember that fact is a distraction what we need to focus on is actually the core of this story which is his read the revelations about mass surveillance remember this is about whistle blowing it's not espionage it's about actually revealing. a mass surveillance which is potentially illegal and is certainly has been kept putting behind closed doors without proper democratic debate without proper democratic oversight we're told all the time that if we've got nothing to hide we've got nothing to fear but that has now been blown out of the water by edward snowden's revelations the fact is that the more that's collected about us the more we have to fear in another twist a whistleblower russell tice who released his secrets during the george w. bush era so as a former cia head general petraeus and even barack obama were once targets for
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n.s.a. snooping you also confirmed that data is indeed being stored james corbet japan based independent journalist believes tice's revelations didn't get the attention they deserve. while the snowden drama unfolds something that's being swept under the rug are these new revelations from n.s.a. whistleblower russell tice who is in fact one of the people who was one of the sources for the original two thousand and five new york times story on the n.s.a. wiretapping scandal at that time but now russell tice to step forward with more information into explosive interviews from the last few days he talked about how the n.s.a. is in fact storing not just the metadata which has been the talking point in the newsroom so far but the content of all electronic communications that are going across the u.s. servers from e-mails to faxes to phone calls all of it being stored now at the new data center and in utah he also went on record to name names of some of the specific targets of n.s.a.
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spying on with the implication that this information was being used for blackmail and purposes on including the senator then senator barack obama including general david petraeus and others who he mentioned by name including supreme court justices and top ranking military and republican congressional officials so this is being specifically avoided right now and the implication is that the news outlets are as we've seen with the snowden story and other stories collaborating with the intelligence agencies behind the scenes to repress this information but this is this is absolutely explosive and again coming from a key n.s.a. whistleblower who is right now being ignored with these allegations and as whistleblowers such as snowden reveal government's appetite for personal data we're interested in how you feel about your private information being collected by security agencies on our website we've asked you for your opinions let's take a look how it's been panning out so far this is what we have right now the majority view seventy three percent a huge swath of this pie in blue saying that spying on people is absolutely
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unacceptable without warning the people who are involved and significantly less people seventeen percent here in pink say they don't really have opinion they don't want to put it on the line because the government tracks their answers and they. it could easily be tracked by security agencies now down here seven percent in yellow say that it is justifiable if the spiers are looking for terror suspects without the mass tracking of everyone involved and then finally this really tiny green sliver minority three percent say well there is nothing wrong with doing it and people should be worried about the government getting access to their personal information that says because they're not doing anything wrong and you can go to our tea dot com cast your vote have your say. now anti-war activist and a journalist don de bar believes only a major public outcry will bring an end to washington spying on its own people
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the revelations of course are. extremely important to people around the world to understand the nature of the u.s. state and its interest in monitoring everything that goes on spend ten years now that they declare they want to monopolize information total information awareness and control and we find in these revelations that they've actually been exercising that for quite some time as a matter of fact it goes back to echelon of the late ninety's when they began doing exactly that accumulating information not just metadata but intercepting storing and searching through various communications that are used on the internet you have bradley manning and they throw him in the you know on on ice basically naked in a cell for a couple of years and threaten him with the death penalty you have a sonnet and now you have no didn't and i only hope more will come out in the people will start to listen here in the united states and do something about it unless there's a fundamental change in the actual power in the united states and unless there's
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a press that develops in the united states that's critical and interested in investigating what goes on we're going to know about it but it's going to continue . the only wavering support of many u.s. companies for the government's a surveillance program including the ones no didn't work for has sparked some awkward questions or to use music and i've looked at what might be in it for the firms themselves we know now that thousands of companies have been sharing sensitive information with the u.s. government in exchange for various benefits now this raises concerns about the extent of the private sector collaboration with the u.s. government not to mention questions about what exactly those benefits were now the details may be murky at this point but let's go over exactly what information we have now companies who did hand over data to the government got a big thank you that's according to michael hayden who used to head the cia as well as the national security agency which runs of course the prism program and mr
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hayden told bloomberg this if i were the director and had a relationship with a company who was doing things that were not just directed by law but were also valuable to the defense of the republic i would go out of my way to thank them and give them a sense as to why this is necessary and useful all right well what kind of thank you exactly are we talking about here well again not a lot of details but anonymous sources did tell bloomberg that leaders of the companies who handed over data to the government were showered with attention and information by government agencies in fact in some instances that meant quick warnings about the threats that could affect their bottom line for example serious internet attacks and who's behind them of course this exchange of information is supposed to be voluntary and while at this point we don't exactly have evidence that this is not the case but while most of the companies seem to have participated simply because the government asked them for help one former c.e.o. paints a slightly different picture in two thousand and one when some telecom giants allegedly
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were asked to participate in an n.s.a. information sharing program one company qwest initially refused to play ball in according to court documents filed by its then c.e.o. joseph not cio as a result of that decision the company was denied lucrative n.s.a. contracts he believed to be worth fifty to one hundred million dollars which allegation he says for refusing to partake in the government spying program. so to sum it up companies that share data earned government goodwill information about threats possible classified information and of course there's concern that those who did not play along could could have been left out of lucrative government contracts course we don't have more information on this but that's person i see the point the lack of transparency about this data swap is a major concern now it's done in the name of security but at what cost and to whom we seek out and over porting for our tea in moscow we will have more on the edward
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snowden story in just a couple minutes don't go away you watch more tree. and you lives in the us knows that the i.r.s. does not play around one honest or dishonest mistake could get you in a lot of trouble even a longtime friend of mine got his entire life savings destroyed due to some simple honest error you think that workers in an organization that could punish you for your financial failings would be very sharp with their own money but that's sadly not the case according to an audit report from the treasury inspector general for tax administration at the very least one thousand iris employees have abused the charge cards they were issued to cover their official travel expenses some of these people are very high on the ladder including an executive level official a criminal investigator and multiple ploys with security clearances much of the abuses related to a place writing checks for big purchases which later bounced due to accounts being
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empty yeah the people who could ruin your life for one little financial folly seem to have no problem over drawing while they are living it up on taxpayer funded travel to keep things in perspective the iris is a huge organization so one thousand abusers is a minority but in the spirit of fairness i think these card abusers should be punished just as harshly as normal people who run afoul of the i.r.s. but that's just my opinion. they were ready to do anything for their country to try to love the country more than yourself if you joined the military for any other reason that you're probably not going to have a good day. in the hands of the state. they live remembering the past is impossible to get rid of. the war. but however
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good people do get heard. heard good people to be silent. but would prefer not to be sometimes i feel like. i should have died over there. are some people who. is cheaper than paying. for news today. these are the images the world has been seeing from the streets of canada. operation.
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and welcome back you're watching our team let's continue with our top story wanted by the u.s. on espionage charges n.s.a. whistleblower edward snowden has formally applied for political asylum in ecuador snowden is currently in a moscow airport and is reportedly waiting to board his next flight in the next twenty four hours meanwhile washington is reportedly ramping up the pressure on latin america urging all states to deny him refuge r.t. contributor option retards he believes that no developing nation would agree to just hand snowden over. chinese american relations it just goes to show how poorly those relations are going because that arrest warrant went out the complaint under the espionage act and under international law as the united states might have it and of course the hong kong government ignored it as most developing nations
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would they realize that the united states and the way it's been operating is something like a tallit tarion strait and so many ways i suppose the first stub united states were using their back channels trying to get through to xi jinping saying what a nerd is going in hong kong they released this espionage act complaint what is it unauthorized communication of a national defense information and immediately the chinese government cooperates with edward snowden perhaps cooperate with the russian government and everyone is trying to desperately spirit him away because we know president obama wants to get him by any means necessary norman. roots action a civil action group he believes there is a growing number of americans that are outraged by the surveillance activities of its security services. well he's really a hero to so many americans but rather than the labels they keep trying is that you
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has brought truth to the necessity of a democratic process and there's a curse people in the white house and many in congress are not happy about the illumination of they have been engaged in survey analysts which is direct violation of civil liberties of the citizens of the united states as well as a violation of the privacy of people around the we're all so naturally the obama administration and the vibe harness and security state fans on capitol hill want to grab edward snowden they want him in u.s. custody so he can be tried on from the news media and treated we can assume what about the way in which the army whistleblower bradley manning has been treated in terrible conditions and degradation bordering on torture is not over the line so of course people in washington would like to grab edward snowden and shut him up so it
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is a fundamental conflict between those who are dominating the u.s. government now who want to suppress the bill of rights and resistance not about resistance from many of us who say no way we do not accept the suppression of our rights with snowden's revelations showing internet users are being spied on globally people are increasingly turning to alternative technologies to protect their private data. reports on the boom and the personal use of encrypted communications services. in a post prism world some are losing and others are gaining google of arisan facebook apple and other u.s. technology companies have lost credibility and the trust of their customers encrypted communications services on the other hand are seeing their businesses boom oh it's going crazy that. you know a lot of people suspected these. the government u.s.
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government was spying on americans but now we have this confirmation and so everybody is contacting us now when we've had a huge surge in orders phil zimmerman is the co-founder and c.e.o. of silent circle a global encrypted mobile service that protects users' privacy from the u.s. and national security agency and big data companies we have created an architecture that doesn't share the key cryptographic keys with the servers and servers that we control. so. if the government tries to persuade us to hand over something that we might have on our servers. we can't give them the keys and we can't give them the decrypted messages we don't keep logs of the of the connections between people so a court order can make us give them something we don't have however privacy doesn't come free and annual membership to silent circle cost one hundred twenty dollars
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the newest kid on the block is secret the mobile app encrypts voice calls and text messages the south african company has clients in two hundred countries with skyrocketing demands recently coming from the u.s. and u.k. i mean it's not growing every day percentages. or growth in most application as sensually allows you to create a new identity with a secure phone number. need to be every day and. going forward not just in. other countries. as you call it easy as you are the day meanwhile daily traffic at the search engine start page has doubled in less than a month jumping to nearly four million queries the netherlands based company doesn't store ip addresses search history or use tracking codes and it's not
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subject to us jurisdiction we strip out anything that would identify you and then we submit the search for you to google on your behalf and then we get the results back from google we strip out any kind of tracking cookies or anything that might be included with that we serve the results to you privately and then we delete all records of your visit so we delete your ip address we delete your search terms and at the end of the day we have no record of anyone even having bet on our website while the global push for privacy is accelerating experts say encryption alone won't be enough the n.s.a. surveillance has is worse than mine were somebody thought and. i think that the technology we provide is only part of the solution i think we also have to try to push back. with public policy debates in the u.s. and get the laws to change the exposure of america's global electronic surveillance
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program has also revealed alternatives to all those who want to secure their privacy however in most cases people will have to pay to protect their communication from a government that's been accessing and story data for years. will stay with our t.v. after the break we talk with the trail blazing whistle blower william binney about just how far u.s. intelligence reaches into private life and the consequences for the general public . emission free cretaceous free in-store charges free. arrangement free. three stooges free. old free broadcast plug in video for your media projects and free media. tom.
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you know how sometimes you see a story and it seems so you think you understand it and then you glimpse something else and you hear or see some other part of it and realize everything you thought you don't know i'm charming welcome to the big picture.
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happening to the global economy.
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live. i'm sitting here with mr william benny he's a thirty two year veteran of the n.s.a. who helped design a top secret program he says broadly changed american personal data and he actually helped crack those codes and enter into this he is now a whistleblower mr benny thank you so much for joining me so first of all let's
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talk about the latest information that has come out from this n.s.a. spying on americans well first of all the the pfizer warrant that was issued to the f.b.i. to get data from verizon. that's that's been going on according to the paper anyway since not two thousand and seven and this is like being renewed every three months so if you look at the top corner top right corner of that order it's thirteen dash eighty that means it's the eightieth order since in this year of two thousand and thirteen so when you start say what are the other seventy nine orders you can figure other companies in and this is like the second order of two thousand and thirteen for each company so that maximum you would divide eighty by two and maximum number of companies that could be involved in this kind of order would be forty. so but i'm sure that there are other other things that they have other orders that they're issuing other than just this kind for the service providers or
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the telecoms so let's talk about the nine internet companies that said that they are part of this this prison program should americans really be surprised at this but i'm not that's for sure but i would point out that. the n.s.a. had deployed naris devices and it's in court documents submitted by mark klein documenting the n.s.a. room in the file in the san francisco bay t.n.t. building where they had naris devices in a splitter that basically duplicated the fiber optic lines and would send him down to pass all the information went down two directions one of them went to the nearest devices in the n.s.a. room and so those nervous devices could take everything off that fiber optic line. which meant they could get one nearest inside device can do ten gigabits a second which meant it could reassemble a quarter and a million and a half and a quarter one thousand character emails
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a second and that's the kind of input they would get from one device now i'm sure they have multiple devices at multiple sites in the country as well as other places in the world so that's an awful lot of data to try to manage and so they need to do things like build bluffdale to plan for the future so they have lots of storage for all this data coming in so how far down the rabbit hole are we are we've really just at the tip of the iceberg in terms of their spying with this prison program coming out in the horizon records tim clemente who is an ex f.b.i. agent came on c.n.n. about a week or two ago and he said that the any digital data wasn't wasn't safe and that the intelligence community f.b.i. had ways of getting back to it and he was specifically talking about that phone call between one of the time era of brothers and his wife. and if his wife didn't tell the f.b.i. what they talked about in that phone call that they had ways of getting back to that and transcribing and getting that information so that's telling you what
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they've got recorded then the extent of a digital data means all kinds of e-mail all kinds of twitter kind of things and anything going across the fiber optic lines as well as the public switch telephone network so we're not talking billions of pieces of information here are we talking truly talking to my phone calls and e-mails jointly would be on the order of twenty trillion for the last twelve years how can we even manage that sort of thing they're saying with this present program for instance they have one lawmaker after another supporting it saying that it helps ward at least one terrorism attack how would trillions of emails and twirl eons of bits of data help find one terrorist attack my personal view is that the intelligence community is bamboozling congress and the administration they are telling them that we have to do this in order to find the bad guys in the networks and i just absolutely false you don't have to do that there were ways and means to.

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